How Oliver’s is finding its fast food groove
On this episode of The CMO Show we meet James Wood, Marketing Director at Oliver's, a quick service whole foods brand with 18 restaurants along Australia’s east coast.
James reflects on some of the challenges and opportunities that come with being a disruptor in the QSR space, and how Oliver’s is finding its groove at just the right time.
There’s nothing like a good Aussie road-trip. We’re a big country and we spend a lot of time on the open road getting from place to place.
Of course, no road-trip is complete without a good pit-stop. And while Maccas fries or a 3-week-old hot dog might feel like a good idea at the time, it never takes long for the regret to set in.
Turns out there’s a healthier option available and it’s making big inroads in the quick service restaurant sector, even if it’s been a long time coming.
“I often say we’re a 20-year-old startup because we really are,” says James Wood, Marketing Director at Oliver’s.
The whole foods brand has 18 restaurants along Australia’s east coast and its healthy food options are available at nearly 200 petrol stations nationwide.
“Oliver's really is a challenger brand, we’re the little guy. We do not have the budgets of our competitors so we're really looking at how we can growth hack brand awareness and how we can drive sales.”
On this episode of The CMO Show, James reflects on some of the challenges and opportunities that come with being a disruptor in this space, and how Oliver’s is finding its groove at just the right time.
“There's so many good things about Oliver’s, whether it's the vision and the purpose, the sustainability aspect of the business, the product itself or our fantastic staff,” says James.
“There's so many different things that we can talk about in this brand and I really enjoy finding creative ways of marketing to represent all those different aspects.”
Keen to hear more? Grab yourself an alkaline water and a box of sweet potato fries and feast on this episode of The CMO Show.
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Credits
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The CMO Show production team
Producer – Rian Newman
Audio Engineers – Ed Cheng & Daniel Marr
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Transcript:
Hello. Mark Jones here. You're listening to the CMO Show, a marketing podcast made for and by marketing professionals. Now, there's nothing like a good Aussie road trip where big country and we spend a lot of time on the open road getting from place to place. But of course, no road trip is complete without a good old pitstop. And while Macca's fries and maybe a three week old hot dog might feel like a good idea at the time, it never takes long for the pangs of regret to set in.So if you're thinking there's got to be a better option, it turns out there is. Strap in and let's meet them.
Welcome to the CMO Show. My guest today is James Wood, marketing director at Oliver’s. Now, you've probably noticed, Oliver’s on your travels because frankly, they're hard to miss. Not only are the restaurants big, bright and green, their natural, healthy menu is often very much at odds with the surrounding environment or indeed its competitors on the road.
James joined Oliver’s just a couple of years ago, and we talked about some of the challenges and the opportunities that come with being a disruptor in the Quick Service restaurant industry. It's a fun chat, so let's jump into it.
Mark Jones
So just give us the definition of the Oliver's business? How do you describe it to people?
James Wood
I would say it's a solution as a business.
Mark Jones
That's interesting.
James Wood
That's how I describe it. I think in this day and age, Oliver's was founded in a time when health and wellness really wasn't on the radar. There was definitely subcultures that were interested that required health or had dietary requirements and preferences. And in that day, this is nearly 20 years ago, in 2005, particularly on the road and in the locations where Olivers has grown to be, there was just nothing.
So there was talk about startups being invented and what is the problem that your business is designed to solve. And there was just such an incredible product market fit because health for people that are on the road or on road trips, whether they're travellers, whether they're grey nomads, it's just the perfect fit and to such a gaping problem I would say for Australians.
Mark Jones
I got to say I was looking at the website and I think this really for me summarises the interesting aspect of Oliver's and I'm interested in your sort of take on this from a brand positioning point of view. When you head north out of Sydney and you go up through the central coast, there's an Oliver's right next to a McDonald's in Wyong. There's actually, I think, a picture on the Oliver's website and there's this cheeky sort of picture describing and picturing on a billboard the Oliver's product set.
And then in the background there's the McDonald's, right? And for me as a father and we go on road trips, you have this existential problem. Do I keep the kids happy and just go to the path of least resistance, which is Maccas, or do I do the right thing and actually put good food in their body?
I think that's the decision that you present to people on the road in that context. So that's an interesting space to play. Right?
James Wood
I think so. And I think positioning in general, I think we as marketers can, we can come up with one positioning that describes that where we're going to lay in the market, and I think that's great. But then where I get excited is defining that but then unpacking all of the different ways to take that to the market for all of the different audiences that exist. And Oliver's has a really diverse range of target segments.
So the way that we talk about Oliver's and the solution that we present to people is very different. So to grey nomads, very much interested in quality and also in the taste. They're looking not necessarily as much for health, but they appreciate that about Oliver's and about the food, whereas it's very different for a mom and a dad of a young family who are actually very conscious and very interested in the health of their children and aware of it. So we try to have fun with it as well and be a bit cheeky and find different ways that is going to resonate with these different audiences.
Mark Jones
That's what I thought was quite fun 'cause it was quite a cheeky positioning and sometimes you've got to do that to get a bit of cut through.
Mark Jones
I particularly love that aspect of marketing, which is the brand personality and tone of voice How would you describe Oliver's in that way? What would you say would be that tone and personality that you're trying to bring to market?
James Wood
That's a great question and originally when I came on board, the first thing that we did was really a research project with our agent research agency, house of brand to really understand where is this brand at? And the second thing that we did once we knew the state of the brand was to refresh the brand strategy and the brand identity. As part of that process I worked with in agency art mode, we really, when it came to tone of voice, we boiled it down to four, I guess personas, but four tones of voice.
We can stretch into these various ways of talking about the brand according to where we're showing up or what we're talking about. And where we got to was the farmer, the foodie, the philosopher and the friend. So we have these four ways. So the farmer really brings out our passion and the way that we would talk about produce and about providence and about sustainability and the earth, and the soil.
The foodie is really our love of food, which is what we're based on. We love food and how do we communicate the taste and talk about our love for food because that's what this business is born on. The philosopher, I think also it's bringing an element of there's something deeper to this brand and we're unafraid to talk about how we view the world and also to get a bit deeper and a bit more meaningful. And you'll see that whether it's on the website or in the social media content coming through.
And finally the friend. I think the friend is where we feel like we can get a bit more playful, a bit more banterous, have a dig at our competitors and all the while in a bit of a cheeky and fun way I guess.
Mark Jones
So can you give me a picture of the approach that you're taking when you look across all the different activities? Can you give us a sketch if you want to maybe start from your budget, what are you allocating to certain activities, what are your focus areas? How do you take a brand like Oliver's to market? What's the strategy look like from a big picture point of view?
James Wood
It's a great question, Mark, I've been with Oliver's for a year and a half now and it's very, I think... I often say this is a 20-year-old startup because we really are... Oliver's really is a challenger brand and it is the little guy. We do not have budgets like our competitors so we're really looking at how we can growth hack brand awareness and how we can drive sales as well in a short term.
I think one of the hugely important factors that can get sometimes understated or overlooked is the engagement with staff as well. Because our staff are the front lines and they are the brand representatives. Word of mouth is very much still the number one tool that a marketer has.
Our staff, I would say they're absolute legends across the whole network. I'm constantly surprised when I'm out across the network at how passionate these people are about this brand that is trying to achieve a big mission but has a lot of obstacles in the way. I get really passionate when we talk to staff or when I have a good conversation with someone out there at Goldman or up at Port Macquarie.
I think that's where our focus is laid is really engaging with staff and getting some love and some fun around our business and the brand as well as giving them the knowledge so that when someone walks in having seen an art about our gluten-free offering, that they can say these are the items that are gluten free or here's how you can do some menu hacks to get to some solutions. And they do that.
Our staff are warm and friendly and if they can do that educational piece and understand dietary requirements and even different preferences and different diets because you and I know how many there are these days.
Mark Jones
Yeah of course. And obviously in marketing terms that's customer experience, so if they're the face of Oliver's as it were, you want to make sure that those people get the story and all those sorts of things.
Mark Jones
So it sounds like you've had some great experiences on the road with that and feeling the energy from customers and really getting a sense of these are people who can articulate that story, who can talk about the food. How do you deal with what I imagine would be a bit of a tension around the speed that's required. You come in, order, give me the food now. It's a quick service restaurant. And by the way, can I have a little chat about my food?
James Wood
Yeah, it's definitely in the middle of a school holidays. A staff member is going to be quite limited in what they can give to a customer. And sometimes in this category it is about speed and it is about volume, and sometimes that's the best customer service that you can give is to help somebody to get in and get out. They would appreciate that more than a conversation around health for sure. So I think it's picking the moments and picking the occasions.
Mark Jones
So on the speed side of things, you've got this messaging around healthy food and sustainability. And you want to get those through, but also a lot of people just don't think that way. If you think about the broader market, we're talking about a sub-segment really who would be coming from a place of mindfulness of the food that they're dealing with. So how do you prioritise the values and the experience of people for whom quality is not top of mind? How do you get them to buy your food?
James Wood
Yes. It's a great question and it comes down to where is our first best customer and where do we prioritise which segments we are going after? We are not trying to convert people who absolutely love KFC, and that's all they get when they're on the road trip. And I understand that too. A lot of people have nostalgia for the road trip Macas stop. I understand that and recognise it, and we accept it as a business. But there's so many people and there's such a large volume of people that are out there that are genuinely looking for something better.
Mark Jones
Yeah.
James Wood
So that's where we are trying to focus our attention is on the adjacent customers who would love Oliver's if they had the opportunity to try it, but just for whatever reason haven't seen the brand or haven't experienced the product.
Mark Jones
So what are some of the tactics then, if we can just get a little bit detailed, how do you position some of these products and I think part of this in the back of my mind is the classic fast, good, and cheap Venn diagram. I'm sure you're familiar with it. You can pick two. Can't be three. I have a suspicion you guys are fast and good, but not cheap. So how do you position the products that we're talking about?
James Wood
Yes. It's very true. I acknowledge that Venn diagram is true. You're right. You're bang on correct that it is the cheap one that... I mean the reality is that when you're getting fresh produce from markets and from suppliers, and you are making food in restaurant and you are also minimising the artificial ingredients or avoiding completely artificial ingredients in your food, the reason that there are preservatives and artificial ingredients and colours and foods is because it makes the product cheaper.
Over the last few years everybody in this industry has been obviously having to grapple with the same supply chain and cost of goods, challenges that are well recognised that are out there. And we've been no exception to that. So I do think though value is important still and communicating value. Yes, it is more expensive but yes, also we've put a lot of effort into sourcing quality products. I think that people are open to accepting a higher price point when they see the value in that.
So that's something that I think is really important.We write the descriptions as to what's in each product when we are advertising a new product. We have nutritional information available in real time on our website. You can go look up any product and just immediately find the nutritional information and check the ingredients. We've used digital in ways to help us to surface that information and have it readily accessible and available so customers can see the proof is in the pudding.
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Mark Jones
Something that brings to mind for me in a related area is really creative marketing over the years, people selling water. Water is really sold on the basis of emotion. It feels good. You see pictures of somebody is taking a big skull of this incredibly refreshing water and you're selling this idea of you will feel better. You will look and feel like this person. Is that part of the psychology that you've been reflecting on? Because if you're selling value as you put it and this is a good product, you almost want to avoid the cost side of things.
You really want to emphasise this idea that you are going to feel fantastic. You'll certainly not going to have that Macas low from too much sugar. Right? How do you go around that emotive side of positioning the brand and its products?
James Wood
I think that where we draw the line is that we try to be more emotional and more attentive to and use emotional drivers more when we're convincing people to give Oliver's a go.
When we're doing the brand messaging, when we're putting things out there into the world around who we are and our purpose and we are trying to hit on those emotional drivers. Whereas if we have a customer in the store, we want them to at a level appreciate and experience those emotions. We want them to have warm friendly service. We want them to have a great experience in the bathrooms and we want them to see and experience this premium brand that represents where we want to be positioned.
When it comes to the individual products, I think value for me really is in understanding what's in that and why the ingredients that are in that are superior or natural and also sustainable in our packaging and giving other cues that it's both emotional as well as literal in that moment so that it kind of combines all of those things together.
Mark Jones
Yeah. So at the point of sale, and that's a good one, you're actually selling the ingredients and a market that understands the value of a certain ingredient or a certain positioning. For example, as we speak, I'm just looking at your golden rice nuggets. I'm sure there are something that appeals to a wide cross-section of people and I think I'm thinking of my kids again, but these are organic brown rice nuggets. So again, somebody who understands value and ingredients will be like, "Okay, I got it." Is that what you're talking about when it comes to that point of purchase?
James Wood
I think so. Our product and our menu is designed in an inclusive way. The golden rice nuggets have been on the menu for a long time and the beans, the sweet potato chips. The sweet potato chips as an example was a product that was introduced as a side not too long ago or at least it was we tweaked with the supply of that.
But you can get sweet potato chips down at the pub most of the time. So really I think we're trying to present options to people so that anyone could walk in and say, "Oh yeah, I could try that. Or I could see something on that menu that I could get my head around." As well as some of the more, I would say niche menu items. For example, cold pressed juices and fresh smoothies, you can walk into an Oliver's and they'll juice to whatever recipe you want out of all of the fruits and vegetables that we have available. So combining classic cold pressed orange juice with whatever combination anyone could want to come up with.
Mark Jones
Yeah, got it. Again, that simplicity piece is really key for people when you're in those sorts of environments. Just to switch now from the experience to the way that you are evaluating your progress over time, clearly a purpose-driven brand and you're looking at the impact that you're making in the community, but also as a business, how are you evaluating your success?
James Wood
As the director of marketing, the revenue and EBITDA is at the end of the day how we measure success and marketing. I think any good marketer would probably say the same. We've had some good success, we've had some strong sales coming out of COVID which was obviously a terrible time for everybody in the hospitality particularly for Oliver's being out on the road in a lot of these areas. We had store closures for periods of months across the whole network.
So it's encouraging. Sales really are coming back and exceeding previous levels and that really is what gets me excited and what at the end of the day I see myself as responsible for. And underneath that, obviously we have metrics that can report on our brand growth metrics that report on our website traffic, that reports on how we're going in that consideration space. We have customer volume and ATV that ladders up to what are those total sales that we are achieving as a business.
Mark Jones
So are you happy with it? Is it going as you hope and expect?
James Wood
It is. The difficult thing I would say in measuring success is pulling apart, which I think they talk about half of marketing being mystery, pulling apart what it is that we are doing in marketing to drive growth and what is just a natural result of the traffic volumes that are driving past our stores. But I think you have a gut intuition in some ways that takes over when we're looking at where should we put new billboards or which content should we be prioritising and bringing to market? Which campaign should we be running and how do we track those?
So there is always that level of mystery within marketing and performance, but the metrics that we can manage are performing very well. I think it's a testament to the whole business. I wouldn't say that marketing really orchestrates how operations is doing. It's incredibly important in that customer experience. Will people come back? Will they write a good review online about your brand? Will they tell their friends about that coffee that they had at Oliver's on their road trip?
And product. Is our menu right? Are we hitting speed of service and consistency and quality? I think that marketing often it's really is the result of the entire business in a lot of ways, but just getting people through the door I think isn't often the be all and the end all. It is that experience which determines whether somebody is going to come back again and again.
Mark Jones
Well, one of the reasons I ask of course is that you guys recently rejoined the ASX. Congratulations on that. And that must be good from a management team point of view, this rebuilding of the brand and there's no doubt a bit of energy around that. What's that experience been like for you in terms of your role and promoting growth and just recognising that there's additional set of expectations?.
James Wood
The ASX listing was a great outcome and we were all happy about it as a management team. Obviously in the board and our CEO, it was a concerted effort over a long period of time to be re-listed and that was a great success. And ongoing. I think it is though a little bit of let's just get on with it. We are focusing on doing what we know is right for the business and growing the business.
Mark Jones
Yeah, great. It's interesting to reflect on that. What do you think is driving the growth? I mean you're going to say all of my marketing has been fantastic, but when you take a bigger picture, look at the way that the whole organisation has repositioned itself. You've looked at the brand that you mentioned. You've been very intentional about the way that you tell the story. What's your sense from a customer side, the growth. What's changing out there? And in part I'm thinking about some of our post COVID experiences, we're obviously out in the roads a bit more. There's got to be a whole bunch of other factors that might be influencing that underlying growth that you're speaking about.
James Wood
Absolutely. I definitely don't claim to be the sole driver of growth. Like I was saying before marketing can... At the end of the day, it's the responsibility of the marketing team to drive growth in sales. I'm definitely of the view that it's a team effort and in some ways that's a measurer that I put on as a marketer of myself is how well can I align the business and get us all working together to create that great brand and customer experience and to get more people through the door and get our staff more engaged.
Mark Jones
Part of that to me sounds a bit like the team culture. And I should correct myself from earlier on when I said it was the website I was looking at. It was actually a LinkedIn post with that fun new sign at the Wyong store with McDonald's in the background. That just speaks to a little bit more fun that you guys seem to be having internally than maybe years past. Would that be a fair description? And just briefly, what do you think the importance of culture is in terms of driving growth?
James Wood
I think culture is critical. Yeah, absolutely for sure. The culture of the stores, the culture of the store managers set in each store and that definitely ladders back to... And is guided by the culture that we create as a store support team, and as a management team as well.
I think that more and more what we're experimenting with even in marketing is bringing that culture to our marketing and our messaging.
There's so many good things about this business, whether it's the vision of the business and the purpose or whether it's the sustainability aspect of the business or whether it's the product itself or whether it's the staff and there's so many different things that we can talk to in this brand. So, I really enjoy that process of what creative can we come up with that represents maybe those different aspects of the brand.
Mark Jones
Yeah. It sounds like you quite enjoy that. Just when you think about the future and how you might continue to grow the brand, are there other brands that you find inspirational? I'm thinking about other challenger brands like Ubank, or Oporto, or GYG. Although they're probably not a challenger anymore, they're just ridiculously big. But that idea of taking on an established way of thinking or an established set of competitors in the marketplace, what are the sort of brands that you look at?
James Wood
It's a great question and I always look to everywhere and anywhere for inspiration. And the good thing I guess now is that there are so many new brands that are coming out or that exist that truly have that social good and I think that's it. That's been an amazing thing to see and in a very small way to be a part of is this kind of new wave of awareness and consciousness of brands that are seeking to unite purpose with profit and that are seeking to solve some of the world's greatest problems.
I also look to brands and admire brands such as Aesop, which have an almost non-existent advertising or marketing function, but have grown to become incredible contributors to social good and to progress through design or through product. So there's so many different ways to approach growing a brand and I think that's what truly inspires me to do better work is seeing all of the brands that are out there that are either driving the world forward and finding an amazing way to do it or the brands that are just doing great marketing.
Mark Jones
Just as we start to wrap up, when you think about where you're going, have you got campaigns on the horizon or what's next for you? How are you going to bring those ideas to life?
James Wood
Great question. And like I said earlier, we do not have the big budgets of our competitors. So it's very much we are in growth hacking mode this year and into next.
I think the key things I would say, Mark, that we're focusing on now is partnerships and aligning with like-minded brands and businesses to extend into our reach into new audiences. We are doing some new things in the content space. I'm really excited what we can do with building out a new blog and news hub and really ramping up, I would say our content production and social media as a part of that.
Mark Jones
Yeah, great. Well, that sounds exciting. I think there's plenty of scope here for having fun with this brand. It sounds like you've really got some great insights and a good way of balancing, I think the competitive pressures with the big opportunities. So all the best and let's hope that more people make the right decision.
James Wood
Well, I try to make it as easy as possible for them too, but it's been great talking, Mark. Yeah, we will definitely.
Mark Jones
All right. Well, thanks very much again for being our guest on The CMO Show today.
James Wood
It's a pleasure, Mark. Thanks for having me.
I don't know about you, but I'm feeling a little peckish. A big thank you to James for coming on the show. It's a tricky space for a brand like this to be operating. And I loved hearing about the ways Oliver's is understanding and communicating its value and its point of difference for customers. It sounds like they've got a really strong purpose that's translating through the business.
And if you think about it from the board way from and that's from the boardroom all the way through to frontline staff dealing with those hungry, hungry travelers. So that's it for now. See you in a fortnight for our next episode of the CMO Show.