Paul Gloster on understanding consumer beliefs at Lyre’s Spirit Co

Paul Gloster, Chief Marketing Officer at Lyre’s Spirit Co, sits down with host Mark Jones to discuss moving customers from unbelief to belief through storytelling.

If you had to distil all of the many and varied roles a marketer plays down to one core responsibility - you could characterise it as: a duty to discover how to move customers from a state of unbelief to a state of belief.

The onus is on marketers to be aware of what is influencing consumer attitudes and behaviors - perhaps significant global events, societal shifts, pop cultural trends, etc - and understand how brands can communicate effectively within this context.

Lyre’s Spirit Co is an Australian alcohol-free spirits company, specialising in the distillation of classic spirits like vodka, whiskey and gin. As the brand’s name suggests - inspired by the Australian lyrebird’s ability to mimic the sounds of its environment - they strive to do a top-shelf job at imitating the real thing (sans the ethanol).

Lyre’s Chief Marketing Officer, Paul Gloster, says the brand is built on an intimate understanding that consumer alcohol consumption beliefs, attitudes and behaviours  are changing. And in a market dominated by non-alcoholic botanical spirit offerings, Lyre’s is able to differentiate by sticking to the classics.

“We know that [the choice not to consume alcohol] might be for health reasons... it might be that they're driving. It might be that they've got a big meeting the next day, or they've got to take the kids to a sports game. Or something that has come up really often is the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, when you don't want anybody to know that you might be expecting, and having to hide that. That still allows you some degree of social camouflage,” says Paul.

“We're quite agnostic towards the demographic and the need state, just knowing that putting the product in front of someone with a compelling reason for them to consider building them into their repertoire is working really effectively for us.”

When it comes to listening to Lyre’s customers, Paul says the number one response they typically generate is a sense of disbelief, and taking customers on the journey to a state of belief involves interactive engagement in all its forms.

“People saying "I can't believe that you actually taste like a Bourbon and you're non-alcoholic… Part of our story is building up this credibility in people's minds that we are bonafide, and we are actually a legitimate product,” says Paul.

“We created a community - got people to actually contribute their drink, contribute their recipes, showcase them, and we just saw that the sharing of those ideas, the communication of those drinks, the creativity that our loyal consumers are coming up with, has been a wonderful aspect of socialisation.”

Tune into this episode of The CMO Show to find out how marketers can move customers from unbelief to belief by telling compelling stories, and getting creative with digital experiences.

Resources

• Lyre's Spirit Co
• Lyre’s Shows Just How Far the Non-Alcoholic Spirits Industry Has Come 
• How the founder of non-alcoholic spirits brand Lyre’s spotted a ‘tectonic shift’ to take on the world 

You might also like…

• Louise Cummins on marketing, innovation & storytelling at H&R Block
• DJ Dikic on solving pain points & designing ‘joyful’ CX at Tint
• Fiona Le Brocq on brand relevance

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The CMO Show production team

Producers – Charlotte Goodwin & Stephanie Woo

Audio Engineers – Tom Henderson & Daniel Marr

Got an idea for an upcoming episode or want to be a guest on The CMO Show? We’d love to hear from you: cmoshow@filteredmedia.com.au.

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Transcript:

Host: Mark Jones

Guest: Paul Gloster

Mark Jones:
We as brand storytellers seek to find, tell and listen. We need powerful insights to inform our strategy, emotive stories to share, and - if we’re good at our jobs - we listen carefully to what our customers are thinking and feeling, and respond accordingly. If our insight is that a particular consumer behaviour is changing, how do we as marketers tell a story that aligns with that change, and also appeals to customers whose beliefs are currently unchanged? In other words, how do we move customers from unbelief to belief?

Mark Jones:
Hello friends! Mark Jones here. Great to have you with us again on The CMO Show. My guest today is Paul Gloster, he’s Chief Marketing Officer at Lyre’s Spirit Co - an Australian alcohol-free spirits company, specialising in the distillation of classic spirits like vodka, whiskey and gin - of course without the alcohol. We had a great discussion about innovation, how marketers can use storytelling to influence their beliefs, and of course understand what’s going on at Lyre’s - how they’re growing so quickly. Let’s go to my conversation with Paul.

Mark Jones:
Paul Gloster, he's Chief Market Officer at Lyre's Spirit Company. I'm going to jump right into that: What is this brand?

Paul Gloster:
Well we're a new brand. Lyre's is just a little bit over 12 months old, but we have a range of products that operate in this new world of beverages, which is non-alcoholic spirits. So it's designed to give you all the flavours, all the experiences, all the tastes, that you know and love from a traditional alcoholic beverage, but on a base that's actually non-alcoholic, so there's a whole lot of other benefits that you can get, including driving responsibility and health benefits as well. So without having to change tastes that you know and love, you can still enjoy the drinks that you know and love, and still enjoy life the way you have to live it these days.

Mark Jones:
You're playing in a space that is hugely emotive and culturally significant to so many people, so how have you understood that and incorporated that into the way that you've conceived this brand?

Paul Gloster:
That's a good question Mark, because it is highly emotive. There's no doubt about that. We all come from the booze industry, so we're naturally highly emotive as well, and love the industry, love the drinks, love the craft. And I think the most important thing for us is just to make sure that we remain true to the industry that we exist in. So it's not about replacing the alcoholic drinks, it's actually about giving you an alternative when you actually can't consume the alcohol, but not sacrificing out on the taste, the social experience. More importantly, if you have a look at all of the dry and sober months that are coming up at the moment, the worst place to be during ‘Dry July’ is the pub. Just because there are no quality alternatives. We don't want to see people not going out, being social, going to venues, just because they're making a choice not to drink alcohol, either for a short period, a long period, or permanently in some cases.

Mark Jones:
Where do you guys sit in terms of partnering with, supporting, various causes like ‘Dry July’?  In terms of understanding this brand and what you're doing, quite clearly there's a lot of money to be made outside of just the pure alcohol extreme, right. So where would you position yourselves?

Paul Gloster:
It's funny the way the industry is emerging, because we've done research across most of the markets in which we're operating now, which is four continents now, and we're seeing that there's probably about 20% of people that think this is the worst thing in the world. But 80% of people either are really into it and actually are really looking forward to having a good range of non-alcoholic drinks, or they're switchers, so that they'll switch from an alcoholic drink into a non-alcoholic drink. For the people who think this is a great idea then, we're a really handy solution for them to be able to have a high-quality premium non-alcoholic drink. For the switchers, we're an option for them. So it's up to them to choose, if they're not drinking, to actually have something that resembles what they would normally have when they're standing around a bar, or at a barbecue, or after work.

Paul Gloster:
There's a fair few people who are very active in the non-alcoholic space. There's also a fair few people who are very active about this being the worst thing in the world. So for us to navigate those things, providing this solution to the people who are genuinely in need of it, and then just saying to the people who are dead against it that, we're not out to stop you drinking, and we're not out to stop anyone drinking.  We understand that there's factors that could actually influence your ability to go out and be social and enjoy yourself.

Mark Jones:
As I said, it's emotive, and it's almost like a heresy to be doing what you're doing if you're a purist for whiskey or whatever it might be, I can understand that. But I wonder then who your primary target audience is. Do you have a name for this person, this persona, a core group of people you're after?

Paul Gloster:
Yeah, it's an interesting question, because if you take traditional marketing approaches to segmentation, there's no way with this product that you can say yeah, it's Jared the tradie in western Sydney who loves to have a drink after work with his mates. Then if you slice the segmentation the other way and say, is there a need state, there's no one need state in there either.

Paul Gloster:
What we're finding is that there's a multitude of reasons that people are factoring into their life that are leading them to make a choice to choose a non-alcoholic product. So rather than actually, like I said, doing the traditional kind of segmentation and describing exactly who the consumer is, we've actually focused more on just what the product actually delivers to you. We know that it may be for health reasons that people choose not to drink, it might be that they're driving. It might be that they've got a big meeting the next day, or they've got to take the kids to a sports game. Or something that has come up really often is the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, when you don't want anybody to know that you might be expecting, and having to hide that.

Mark Jones:
Wow, sneaky.

Paul Gloster:
Yeah. That still allows you some degree of social camouflage in there. There's many different reasons, and we're quite agnostic towards the demographic and the need state, just knowing that putting the product in front of someone with a compelling reason for them to consider building them into their repertoire is working really effectively for us.

Mark Jones:
So how have you developed your go-to-market strategies, given that complexity?

Paul Gloster:
It was hard, quite a lot of discussion, and it's good that we've got a very strong team around us. I think the revelation here is that we're not really targeting one person, we're targeting an outcome. We talk often about our reason for being, and changing the way the world drinks, but what we're actually doing is changing the way that people drink by showing them that it's not much of a change at all. You can still have these products in exactly the same environment, in exactly the same style of drink, with exactly the same people that you normally have a drink with. So our go-to-market is very much around reinforcing that yes, it's a change, but it's not much of a change, and it's actually quite a simple solution to quite a complex problem, that can have a multitude of different reasons driving the need for that.

Mark Jones:
That's fascinating. I think it's interesting to reflect on what's going on here when new brands come to market. You guys are pretty young, right? How did you bring the brand to market in the first instance? What was the approach that you used to really kick it off?

Paul Gloster:
It's been interesting, particularly over the last six months, just seeing the way that our initial approach to the market has changed, and many organisations are going through this for the obvious reasons. But our approach traditionally was very around on and off premise, bricks and mortar, building up opportunities to build awareness and trial and consideration through either a liquor store, or a on-premise venue, with a pool of brand ambassadors that would go out and start to make sure that people had the right level of education, the right level of experience, ability to use the product. But we always had things like e-com built into our ecosystem.

Paul Gloster:
It's changed quite significantly from what we set up in that, people talk about pivoting quite a lot, and I don't really think that applies to us. 

Paul Gloster:
Our go-to-market was very kind of traditional. It was find a distributor, get the product range, get the visibility, get onto a menu, get into a catalogue. And what we're finding now is that those things will still apply, but in a quite depressed part of the market, because venues are closed, people aren't going out as much. Our go-to-market needs to change to suit the way people are shopping, this kind of omnichannel consumer that people are talking about. 

Paul Gloster:
We're still operating across all of the other channels, and we're still employing some of those more traditional marketing methods, because they will come back, and they will be really important when they do come back. I guess we started from a real principled perspective, and I guess not too many people have the opportunity to start what you kind of envisage to become a global brand from the start, and we always envisaged that, as we launched in Australia, that would be our home base, but it wouldn't probably be our biggest market. And that's the way things are going through. So as we've designed the assets from a global perspective, we've been able to create them so that they are flexible across those different channels, including digital.

Mark Jones:
You're saying that you've come into this from a industry background, so presumably you've been in the alcoholic side of the industry. How is your approach different to what we've seen traditionally from the alcohol industry itself, from a marketing perspective and a storytelling perspective?

Paul Gloster:
It's similar but different, of course. The similarities are the same in that it's a beverage that people consume. They consume it in an environment, they need to be aware of it, they need to find reasons to consider trial and purchase it. I guess in the alcohol industry,  you didn't really have to convince people that it was actually a beer or a spirit.

Paul Gloster:
The number one thing that we get is probably disbelief. People saying "I can't believe that you actually taste like a Bourbon and you're non-alcoholic." Unlike the alcohol category, where you're really targeting switchers, you're targeting not generally new consumption opportunities, but people who are switching brands more often than not, this is about actually saying to people who are dissatisfied, or not able to choose the same flavours that they have, and having to compromise. And then having to actually convince them that the product does actually deliver on what the promise is. So it's different from that perspective, but then once you've got that belief in place, a lot of the usage, the trial, the ways of consuming the product marketing, are very very similar.

Mark Jones:
You're educating people about a category at the same time as convincing them that your product is the best in that category.

Paul Gloster:
True, absolutely. And we're convincing them that this trend actually is real. We often talk about people, bringing them onboard as believers, so creating that belief that this is a real thing, mindful drinking, sober curiosity, non-alcoholic spirits, non-alcoholic products are viable, they're quality, they stack up, and they can actually form a part of your day to day repertoire. As I said before Mark, once you kind of get through that, then it's showing people the beautiful drink, it's arming them with the recipes and the equipment to be able to make that drink at home or order that drink in venue. So you get back to the more traditional marketing strategies of visibility, awareness, training, brand ambassador work, and so forth.

Mark Jones:
Look, this is a wonderful moment of serendipity for me, because I've actually written a book called Beliefonomics, and it's the economic impact of changing people's beliefs.  And one of the things I write about is actually how we engage hearts and minds to create this belief moment , where they actually change, in your case, from an unbelief in either the existence of this category or the value of this category, to reconsidering their views, or perhaps even going through a whole journey to believe in the product. So if you've tasted the product, then quite clearly you start to believe in it. You start to recognise it. But I wonder, before somebody's actually tasted the product, what have been the storytelling techniques that you've used to move people from that place of unbelief?

Paul Gloster:
Yeah, it's interesting, because the traditional way of sending a brand ambassador out, and getting liquid on lips, is limited right now. So there's been a couple elements, and there's never one solution here. One of the things that we've done is taken  bartenders who we know that are highly credible, and shown them actually making drinks, as a way to show people that it's a positive endorsement of the quality of the liquid. We've also been entering our product in a lot of the spirit awards, and we've been winning awards against the alcoholic equivalents as well.

Paul Gloster:
Yeah, so part of our story is building up this credibility in people's minds that we are bonafide, and we are actually a legitimate product.

Paul Gloster:
Then what we're doing also is some small formats that we've made available to make it easier for people to sample. And we're also running a thing at the moment where we're getting our brand ambassadors to do digital online cocktail classes. So as a person purchases our product, that gives them access into being able to have a one-on-one with one of our brand ambassadors. What that does is, that allows them to, not just kind of receive a bottle in the mail, but actually create quite an immersive experience that allows their first initial taste of the product to be done in a way that we know is going to leave a very positive impression on them when they first experience it. Normally we'd be able to control that in a bricks and mortar style environment, but in a digital space, we've had to come up with other strategies to be able to deliver, effectively, that same marketing outcome.

Mark Jones:
What about the socialisation aspect? Because obviously you experience products like this with friends. How do you recreate that in a virtual world or a digital world?

Paul Gloster:
Social media is like an absolute godsend for us all. I'm sure all marketers, if they haven't embraced it, they won't be in marketing for much longer now. We've created some communities around our product. We've just gone through, here in Australia, as you know, ‘Dry July,’ so we created an activity around what we called our booze-free month. We created a community that, we got people to actually contribute their drink, contribute their recipes, showcase them, and we just saw that the sharing of those ideas, the communication of those drinks, the creativity that our loyal consumers are coming up with, has been a wonderful aspect of socialisation, when you can't be social, to be able to share the drinks and get other people in. The number of comments of people coming back around, "Wow, must try this drink, love your drink, have to try it," it's naturally not face-to-face, and it's not in a bar, but it still has the same effect as well.

Mark Jones:
How are you tracking the impact of those conversations? Are you able to follow it through? You've obviously got that ecommerce engine firing along nicely.

Paul Gloster:
Yeah, absolutely. Performance marketing has been a really critical part of what we're doing, and being able to not only see that journey from the initial awareness, but through the consideration and then the trial and then the purchase and then the repurchase as well. So we do keep, naturally, a really close eye on it. As we would normally if we were looking at a bricks and mortar venue to see what their turnover was and what their reordering patterns  were.

Paul Gloster:
As I said earlier Mark, the basic principles of marketing haven't changed, it's just the tactics that you have and the tools that you have available at your fingertips to be able to see what's happening out there at the moment.

Mark Jones:
That's great. I was doing some online research, as you do, and apparently you guys posted a million bucks US in sales in the first eight weeks since launching in April. Is that right?

Paul Gloster:
Yeah, I mean we've seen our sales absolutely flying. This has not been a great time for the world, and I think that we had a lot of momentum running into lockdown. We started off in low five figures sales in December, and we're well over six-figure sales regularly now in terms of how we're performing.

Mark Jones:
That's quite remarkable. You're an Australian company?

Paul Gloster:
Yes, Australian based company. Our product is manufactured in Melbourne. We've just started manufacturing in the UK as well, just because we feel the impact of shipping heavy bottles of, effectively, liquid. Proximity to market will be some of the things that we solve for next. US, UK, Europe, in particular.

Mark Jones:
What kind of startup capital was required, to make this happen?

Paul Gloster:
There was a smaller setup to kick things off. There was around two years worth of development in terms of the product and so forth. There was a bit of seed capital that went into that. We've just gone through another fundraising round, so in the middle of the pandemic we've just secured another tranche of capital, but that's really based on expansion. So we've pretty much followed the normal path of a startup, of starting with some seed capital and then expanding it out into some more institutional investments.

Mark Jones:
I wonder how that perspective shapes your role, then, as a marketer, as the CMO. Because we've seen the connection between sales and marketing for quite some time now, and do you think like a startup? Have you got that sort of startup gritty mentality? Or are you able to actually almost cast your mind ahead and start acting like a multi-million dollar organisation, and really reflecting that confidence and the sensibilities that come with that? 

Paul Gloster:
Yeah, it's funny because  being a startup, we're less than 30 people around the world, and through the pandemic we've all taken on extra responsibilities as well, which has been fantastic for our own learning, and also just for cost management through the organisation. So we very much have a startup mentality, we understand that we're a challenger as well in the market, and our role is to challenge and convince people to switch and make a fundamental change in their behaviour. So that's important in terms of an ethos for us, and being a small team also means that we have that setup.

Paul Gloster:
Having worked on global brands for a couple of decades, a lot of those learnings that I've picked up, the good and the bad, I've tried to build into the brand from day one as well. I talked about the fluidity of our assets before. We've invested upfront in things like digital asset management. We've invested in a lot of brand development to give us consistency, ruthless consistency is one of my mantras, so that we're not creating, recreating, assets all over the world, we've actually got a central source.

Paul Gloster:
Thinking about creating a global brand from day one has been really part of what we're doing. I think that's just good marketing discipline at the end of the day, is just to be really ruthless about how you see your brand, and how your brands communicate, how you grow your brand and what tools you provide a team to be able to do that. So I've tried to build as much efficiency into everything that we do, and scalability for the future as well. 

Paul Gloster:
Working across different time zones as well, having the ability to have consistent assets that people can self-serve, has been a bit of a godsend as well. It means that I'm not having to chase around shared drives late at night looking for pieces of material that people might need.

Mark Jones:
With all that success, I imagine anyone listening to our conversation would be going, "Yeah, but what did he get wrong?" What's the good story there?

Paul Gloster:
There's always lots of learnings, and I think that marketers, good marketers, always should be learning from everything that you do. I think that a lot of the learnings are around going too hard too early. There's something in the back of my mind around this really close link between building distribution and building demand, and it's very easy. We've seen a couple of markets where we've aggressively built distribution, and don't have the right demand assets in place to create awareness. My feeling that the two things need to be closely aligned has certainly been reinforced by mistakes in the couple of markets that we've made that we've learned from. You can't do one in isolation with the other, and pushing one ahead of the other always leads to either dusty shelves full of your product, or a whole lot of dissatisfied consumers who can't find you anywhere. So linking demand and distribution has been a really key learning for me out of our experience even in the last 12 months.

Mark Jones:
To that point, which are the channels that really create the demand? Are you finding is it the earned media, where people start writing about it, or is it the social, where it's almost the word of mouth type thing through social? Or is it your digital ad spend? What's going on?

Paul Gloster:
Across the marketing mix, everything's playing a role at the moment. We had an article written in the New York Times by Florence Fabricant, and she barely touched on our product. She talked about Lyre's' product and we saw an immediate spike in sales. And that was through our US e-com platform. So that was some traditional PR marketing activity that drove really solid results for us. When we launched the booze-free month through ‘Dry July,’ that was all social and digital led, and what we heard back from consumers was, "I'd seen your brand, I was aware of it, but I hadn't seen any reasons to actually buy you. Now I've seen a reason to buy you, I've actually purchased." So different elements of the marketing mix playing different roles across that consumer journey. More traditional channels providing us good awareness. Good introduction. We've leveraged those traditional channels to reinforce the trend, to validate it in consumers' minds, that having a non-alcoholic spirit is a real thing. But yet then we've used other elements of the marketing mix to be able to convert that awareness into purchase, and loyalty in some cases.

Mark Jones:
Best practise suggests when you're starting out, you kind of pick one that you can really optimise first, but have you not had that luxury? You've really needed to push the multi-channel from the get-go?

Paul Gloster:
Yeah, definitely from the get-go. And also, being really flexible between them as well. So we can monitor our digital spend, and we can see how it's performing, but then we can also work really hard on PR and see a demonstrable result from just an article that might be in a traditional newspaper's online site, or a physical newspaper.

Mark Jones:
On your website you've got a blog, which I think you call a diary, which I thought was kind of a neat spin. Those kind of ideas, which I imagine would be great for engaging existing customers?

Paul Gloster:
Yeah, particularly deepening the experience as well. As mentioned before, there's a lot of education involved in it, so being the central repository for providing answers to people has been really key, because as I've said, when you've got a group of people who don't necessarily believe in you, being able to deal with any questions that they have in a really efficient manner, it's been important to us. But we're finding that some of that owned media is actually deepening and building out community as well. As well as creating opportunities for referrals and word of mouth and recommendation from people as well.

Mark Jones:
I know you guys are using Amazon Launchpad, to help you guys get the scale. Presumably you figured out pretty early that you're not in the distribution business. You're in a brand, experience business, so someone else can handle that. But thinking about that and looking ahead, what's your mindset? You're growing at incredible speed, this concept of scale becomes really really important, how are you making plans for sustaining this?

Paul Gloster:
There's a degree of being a bit agnostic between the channels as well, so we have the traditional bricks and mortar, we have a fantastic set of distributors around the world. We do our own distribution in Australia just because it allows us to have a much closer link to the evolving trends and the consumers and the customs. Channels like Amazon in the digital space are absolutely fantastic for us, because they give us access to a group of consumers that, it would be quite expensive to actually put your product in front of them and make them aware of it as well.

Paul Gloster:
And in order to get our growth, we are actually looking at tapping into as many people as we know are open to non-alcohol experiences that we possibly can, in the fastest possible way. Amazon has been a fantastic platform for us to be able to expand our touchpoints of our brand into markets that we wouldn't normally be otherwise able to access. So particularly in markets like the US, where Amazon actually plays a really important role for us. But in the UK, in Europe, it's just about to start, and in Australia as well. They've been a really strong partner and supporter of us. 

Mark Jones:
Yeah, great. How does that actually work? What are the categories that you're going after?

Paul Gloster:
There's definitely a lot of search for non-alcoholic. Number one terms we see are non-alcoholic gin, non-alcoholic spirit, non-alcoholic Bourbon. Then of course there's support through things like the [Amazon] Buy Box and things that we can do, tools that we can employ to put the product upfront and centre for anyone who is actually looking for it.

Mark Jones:
How many competitors do you have, and how concerned are you about that?

Paul Gloster:
It's interesting, it's a really emerging category. There's no doubt about that. The answer Mark might really depend on what you're talking about. If you're talking about in the gin space, there's almost a new competitor every single day. We're seeing a lot of people starting up their new non-alcoholic spirits company, they're all pretty much what we call gin-adjacent products, so they're a non-alcoholic product that has botanicals, citrus, herbs, some unique point of difference in there.

Paul Gloster:
When it comes to the other 12 variants that we've got, there's very few competitors. So we certainly believe that our strength is in our range. We do a gin, and our gin is reflective of a London style gin. Every product that we do, we really want it to be reflective of what the real original spirit is, the true spirit, so therefore we'll stick to that style.

Paul Gloster:
So from a competitor perspective, yes, there's a lot of competitors out there, but we definitely believe that our point of difference is that we're a one-for-one swap for the traditional spirit that you know and love, and that you're used to drinking.

Mark Jones:
So if everybody's doing scotch, or their favourite whiskey or whatever it will be, and you're in a group of friends, you could actually just choose the Lyre's version of that and know that that's going to be the, if you like, the best representation of that category. And I should note the clever name too, right, so the lyre bird is a great mimic, so I think you've done pretty well there. 

Paul Gloster:
That was Mark, our founder. That was all his. That was all his creativity.

Mark Jones:
Very nice. I think just in wrapping up, what's the thing that you love about this role the most? It's the get-out-of-bed kind of question, what is it that really is energising you at the moment, apart from all this fantastic sales and experiences that you're having?

Paul Gloster:
The growth has been a fantastic ride. And I think particularly, just on reflection over the last 12 months in particular, a bit over 12 months for me, I've just enjoyed the ability to create something from the start, and then almost do it in the right way, or what I see as being the right way. There'll be mistakes along the way, there'll be learnings, but being able to take, I guess, a pool of knowledge that's been accumulated in marketing over my experience, and then say, well how would I actually do that if I was given the opportunity to do it? Take the lessons, apply them, be flexible, and hopefully create something that you can go, actually it was a good demonstration of the accumulated knowledge, and also the accumulated experience of the team as well.

Mark Jones:
Yeah, look, I'm almost a little bit jealous to hear you talk about it, because it's like this unique opportunity to apply all that experience, and all the skills, in something you really enjoy, and you're in a category that's doing good in the world, giving people an alternative to alcohol, so I think the ability to create a brand that is a really positive alternative, I think is just fantastic. So thank you for sharing your story with us Paul, it's been really great to get an insight.

Paul Gloster:
Thank you again, Mark.

Mark Jones:
So that was Paul Gloster. Now I think Lyre's is a great example of a brand that's taken an insight around a significant change in consumer beliefs, and created a solution to a complex problem. I think this is an approach all marketers would do well to remind themselves of.  It's not always about throwing everything at a wall and seeing what sticks. You need a targeted, purpose-driven brand strategy, and focus on what you do best to get solid outcomes.

Mark Jones:
Now before I go, please, we’d love you to subscribe to us on your favourite podcast app. Search for “The CMO Show” and hit the subscribe button. A rating and review, of course, would be much appreciated too. You can email us at cmoshow@filteredmedia.com.au - give us your feedback, guest and your topic suggestions. We’d love to hear from you. Thanks for joining us for this episode of The CMO Show. Until next time.