Then, Now and Next
Ten years ago, The CMO Show launched as an experiment in marketing storytelling. Back then, podcasts were niche, TikTok didn’t exist, and AI was just a whisper.
This rare archive of lived experience from more than 237 CMOs, strategists, creatives and technologists - across some of the world’s most recognised brands – is an epic vantage point to gaze at the trends and patternss of marketing leadership - and where it's heading next.
In November 2025, we brought that decade of insight into the room at The CMO Show Live. Host Mark Jones is joined by Michelle Rowling, Head of Sales and Marketing at Luna Park Sydney, Louise Cummins, Co-Founder, Australian Centre for AI in Marketing, and Amy James, Senior Product Marketing Manager at Adobe.
This is your must-listen episode for 2025. Marketers are living in an extraordinary moment - this is the conversation you need to be part of to see through the next ten years of change.
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This episode of The CMO Show was brought to you by host Mark Jones, producers Kate Zadel and Kirsten Bables and audio engineers Ed Cheng and Daniel Marr. This is an edited excerpt of the podcast transcript.
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Mark Jones
10 years is a long time in marketing and even longer in podcasting. In fact, in 2015 when the podcasts serial blew everyone's minds, didn't that change everything? TikTok didn't exist in 2015, and LinkedIn definitely wasn't cool in 2015. At least not by my sense. And yet, here we are today, and now AI is blowing our minds. It's the same energy, just slightly more existential.
Welcome, everybody, to The CMO Show and a special live recording. And we have with us some of our favourite people to celebrate 10 years of podcasting. Can we, yeah, put our hands together for that? The CMO Show is produced by ImpactInstitute in partnership with our friends at Adobe. And here at Adobe's regional headquarters in Sydney, we are so grateful that they have made this space available to us today.
Now, our guests on the panel, to my immediate left, we have Michelle Rowling is the CMO at Luna Park Sydney. We have Louise Cummins, co-founder at ACAM. And of course, Amy James, senior product marketing manager at Adobe. Please welcome them to the conversation. We are going to talk through the big three ideas, what happened then, what's now, and what's next, and it's a really great way to think about where we sit today in marketing. Of course, the big challenge is nobody can remember what we did last week, let alone ten years ago. Thankfully, they did get some time to prepare. So I'm going to ask you first, Michelle, if we go back over 10 years, was there a moment that really stood out for you that for you defines what it means to be an effective CMO?
Michelle Rowling
Absolutely. Being appointed the head of marketing of Luna Park Sydney was actually career changing for me. Calling out that I wasn't looking for a role, calling out that I was approached and offered the role in the interview. And the reason that stands out to me is someone trusted me, someone believed me, and little did I know at the time, Luna Park was looking to evolve and change, and someone thought that I was worthy of taking over that brand. And that has just been such a pivotal moment for me, so it's something that I want to carry on and give to other marketers.
Mark Jones
I love that. Thank you.
Michelle Rowling
Thank you.
Louise Cummins
Sorry, I love that too. Because we've all had those moments where somebody just believed in you and it makes so much difference.
Michelle Rowling
Yeah.
Louise Cummins
That's really beautiful.
Mark Jones
And there wasn't even an ounce of jargon or anything.
Louise Cummins
Yeah.
Michelle Rowling
I had a COVID mask on. I was crying. I was like, "Don't show anybody."
Louise Cummins
I did something similar, actually. It was in one of these buildings. I was working for MGM Studios and they gave me an offer in the interview and it was like, "Ooh, I wasn't really expecting that." It was fantastic. First of all, I just wanted to say congratulations, 10 years. It's amazing. And for me, this was interesting when you sent me the questions because I feel like I was doing the Eras Tour on my LinkedIn, going, "Where was I back then?" I suppose the biggest kind of pivotal moment for me was when I was getting on the executive leadership team. So I remember it was that defining moment of when somebody asks you, "Who's your lead team?" And your lead team at that point is C-suite, not your marketing team. And that's a real difference as a CMO is understanding how the CFO talks, understanding governance across the organisation. So there's been defining roles from a marketing perspective, but I think once you reach that chief level, it's that defining moment where you're no longer just marketing, you're actually across the whole organisation.
Mark Jones
I love it. Amy, no pressure, but have you ever been offered a job straight away in the interview? Because that's two out of three so far.
Amy James
I wouldn't say I've been offered a job straight away like that. I think that's very impressive. But you know what? I feel like the same sort of thing. I've had advocates within my career to kind of give confidence, boost areas where they see opportunity for myself. Because I feel like over time, you don't always know where you want to go, but you have people that you look up to, you see opportunity, and you mirror what they're doing in terms of the way they hold themselves, the way they look at their opportunities within the business, and it opens up opportunities for yourself as well.
Mark Jones
Let's go back to you, Michelle, and I want to ask about 2015. We're picking on 2015 because it was 10 years ago, but what mattered most to you?
Michelle Rowling
From a marketing perspective, I was at News Corp Australia at the time. So quite truthfully, the only thing that mattered to us was the readership and circulation numbers of a printed product. And every time we released a bucket hat or a mini cookbook collectible, we gave it a little hit, but it was that reality check in that season that ultimately circulation and readership's going to change. From a personal success standpoint of 2015, I had a one-year-old at home and I was determined to work full-time. So the idea that you were trying to manage a senior role and make space for yourself as a 27-year-old while you've got a one-year-old at home, success was making bedtime.
Mark Jones
Wow. Well done. I just had, by the way, a little pang of nostalgia being an old print journalism guy. Only 10 years ago.
Michelle Rowling
Yeah.
Mark Jones
Again, it really illustrates how quickly things have changed. I want to quickly flick back to you, Amy, because you were telling me before you've got small people as well.
Amy James
Oh my God. Yes. The juggle is real. I've got three-year-old twins at home. I tell you what, my partnership with my husband is incredible. I feel like I wouldn't be here if it wasn't a strong partnership there. But yeah, looking in terms of that ambition in roles, it's an internal struggle in terms of I want to be home for the kids, but I also want to grow and give back to the business and work with different customers.
Mark Jones
What was your mindset 10 years ago? Can you imagine being here back then? Did you have this sort of picture of where you were going?
Amy James
Do you know what? I didn't think I was going to have kids. Back then, I was actually working in social content management within Adobe. So I was listening to social sentiment, feeding back into customers, what people were saying about their brands. It was so cool. It was like the era of social. But if I thought to myself what was happening 10 years later, I don't think I would've been here, especially with twins. That was a nice, fun shock.
Mark Jones
Louise, 2015 was all about digital transformation. I know because I've been looking at the transcripts because I couldn't remember. Yet, here we are talking about AI, as I was saying in the setup. What's your take on how different life was back then?
Louise Cummins
Well, in 2015... Again, I had to go back through my LinkedIn to try and remember where I was. I was actually the first marketers for Invisalign, which was a highly disruptive medical technology, if anybody's had it. But that was a really interesting one because I had both B2B and B2C marketing at the same time. That dual experience of how do you build up enough suppliers to do it at the same time, and it was very disruptive, and it was completely reinventing that industry. And it was high, high growth. And one of the things that I suppose brought me back to my true north was then the stories and the purpose of changing the way people identify with our product, because it meant that people that didn't smile before actually smiled, and that's such an important piece of somebody's identity and things.
So, for me, the digital transformation was more in the category that I was in, but we were starting to talk about it. For me, it was probably the next role, when I was actually given a full digital transformation role on top of... So that was with H&R Block and that was... Obviously, tax prep is completely changing. It's something that we all do. I love the fact that... I don't know. This is a kind of a thing where you're kind of waiting for that moment at the very end of how much money I'm going to get back. It's almost like a gambling thing of like-
Michelle Rowling
That's true.
Louise Cummins
... "Oh, that's so exciting. I got an extra thousand dollars." But for us, that was a huge big shift for me. So we had to make sure that we got our MarTech stack right, how it was it going to look like for a DIY. So that was probably the first kind of real foray of how it was going to completely change the way we were going to do in a business sense in terms of transformation.
Mark Jones
That's actually a really great insight in terms of realising value and going from, "Here's the money I have to spend, and we'll just see what happens," okay, that was the old story of 50% of my marketing is... it can be measured and the other 50%, hooray. We don't know. So we've come a really long way. Michelle, your thoughts on digital transformation? Are we doing that or something else?
Michelle Rowling
Digital transformation, for us, at that point was huge. I was at Bankstown Sports in the club industry. Which is obviously quite traditional. We had monthly magazines, we had physical membership cards. So the idea that you could convert a whole... I guess a community to evolve to understanding an app and not having a physical card, that was really exciting. I really enjoyed being on the forefront of that.
Mark Jones
Yeah. I feel like we're so modern right now. This just feels so quaint and delightful. So we've seen then in 2017, 2018, what was fascinating to me in looking at the transcripts again is empathy, human insight, and purpose emerged in that time. 2017, 2018 for those of us who want to cast back into our own memories too, Greta Thunberg turned up, we had climate protests escalating. We saw a lot more talk of sustainability and inclusion in those times. We started to see brands talk more and more about experiences.
So this idea of brand value, which we've really touched on already, started to come through as a result of these social changes. I think that's a really interesting reflection point. Again, casting back into either your LinkedIn CV or your memory, 2017, 2018 purpose, creating value, brand value. What was going on for you back then?
Louise Cummins
Oh, for me... I was just sort of trying to piece together because it is sort of one of those things where you're trying to piece together the different moments. I feel like there was this moment where we went full on into MarTech efficiency, personalization. That was all the narrative. And I felt like we lost our way a little bit within the storytelling, the brand, the empathy, why we all actually got into marketing in the first place, the magic. And then I feel like there was that narrative back to having a lot of that conversation. I don't know if we've actually found the right pendulum, for me. There's still a lot of conversation around how we do things versus what's in the best interest of the brand story and the customer at the end. But yeah, I feel like at that time it was all like how do we automate everything? And now it's-
Mark Jones
Yeah. MarTech was the buzz. I remember going to conferences and it was endless pictures of our MarTech stacks. We got so excited.
Michelle Rowling
I think for me, that era of, I guess, environmental awareness and environmental consideration, it was relevant to consumers and brands and it was an opportunity for us to create value in the brand that I was working for, again, in hospitality. The idea that you could put paper straws out, the idea that takeaway containers became cardboard. It showed customers that you understood the problems that the world was facing and you understood what they cared about. So that was something that we really, really took hold. And then taking that one step further. That was the era of sourcing locally, supporting Australian brands and businesses. It was the rise of the craft beer era as well, which I think has taken hold. And I think that's something that... Making sure a brand can actually stay relevant to consumer... We've been doing it the whole time.
Mark Jones
Yep. And I love the fact that it's just become a normal part of the narrative. Now, before we go to looking at the present, and we can talk more about AI because I know you want to, but just thinking about COVID, we can't go past 2020. And that was like a giant reset in so many different ways. We started building on empathy and transparency storytelling. Again, to your point, Lou, really understanding the experience of people in work, and they were very tough times. I'm curious for each of you, what did you learn? Maybe, Amy, what did you learn?
Amy James
Oh my goodness. I tell you what, I feel like one of the biggest things that I felt like I learned during that time was adaptability, being able to adapt to a new way of working. But within businesses as well, I think it created a new requirement to connect again, not just internally as employees, but ensuring you're still connecting with your customers too.
From a personal experience, I do remember completely changing the way that we worked with Teams and making sure that we were showing up. I really missed seeing people face-to-face. It was like, "Let's make sure we turn our videos on when we're talking." But I think it was that empathy of understanding challenges of our employees going through that time and just being flexible from a business standpoint, but I think also being adaptable from an employee point of view as well, I think was key. And I think there's some great learnings for now as well with the rapid rate of change.
Michelle Rowling
I think for me what hurt was being labelled non-essential. So the idea that you had friends and family-
Mark Jones
Wow. Can we just double click on that for a second?
Michelle Rowling
But do you remember? It was like, essential workers, you're important, you go to work, you earn your full living, you earn your full wage. You, marketing, not essential. Don't work. $600 a week and try and create a community from your couch. So that, to me, is something that I actually really struggled with. And I think that as marketers, if you marketed toilet paper or food, you were good. If you worked in retail, you were non-essential. And you had to try and stay motivated, to try and keep your team motivated. I was in a room where we stood down over 1,000 workers a few days before JobKeeper was announced. We're in clubs and hospitality. We were hit the hardest. And you had people saying, "Well, am I going to do?" And you couldn't say, "I don't know," but we all didn't know. So we had to, essentially, be essential even though we weren't essential.
Mark Jones
Yeah. I'm feeling the existential crisis. That's rough. Lou?
Louise Cummins
By the way, tax was considered to be an essential service, so-
Michelle Rowling
You we’re sorted, right? I was poor.
Louise Cummins
And I needed the money to fund everything. It's interesting you had that because I felt like a lot of marketers, it actually ended up being that a lot of the focus came on to us to actually try and solve problems. So it's interesting that that was your lived experience. So from my experience, it was like everybody was looking towards marketing to try and solve the problems.
For me, I suppose, and I think we could all... I mean, it's so interesting going back through that time, isn't it? The fear that we all had. We talk now more about the business, but actually navigating our people through that, and we all had sort of people that had real struggles during that, I'm sure. Anyway. Don't want to go down that road, but some really hard times for a lot of people.
One of the things I suppose I found interesting was projects that previously people would say, "Would take us six months to do," suddenly happened in three weeks. And it goes to your adaptability. You don't realise how quickly humans can adapt until they're actually put into hot water to change. But it's fascinating. I do think that although we had a shared COVID experience and trauma, every single person I find had a very bespoke experience depending on their family situation, where they lived, their role within the company, the industry. So I don't think it's a very homogenous answer.
Mark Jones
Let's switch now to the now, to the present. This is where we get to talk about AI. Not because we have to, because we want to, Louise.
Louise Cummins
I'm laughing because every time I go into a room they're like, "AI again."
Amy James
The ‘A’ word.
Mark Jones
There are a couple of interesting tension points. One of course is uncertainty, but on the flip side, it's super exciting. These are extraordinary times that we're living through. So let's just get a sense of how you think this season we're in now is transforming or maybe reshaping the way we think about the role of the CMO in marketing.
Louise Cummins
I don't think it's anything like we've seen in the last 10 years. I think we're moving into an era like the industrial revolution. So I think it's a whole new playing field. I'm excited. I mean, when I see some of the work that's happening in the healthcare sector and... Even just my old role was CMO at World Vision, and seeing how it's going to transform the development space and education, and there's so much power that it has in it.
I think it also will free us up from, as marketers, from doing all of the admin, the mundane, and get us back to the soul of good marketing because we didn't... Apparently we all spend up to two to three hours, even if you've got an EA, on calendar management across the week. Surely there's a better use of spending two to three hours with your family, right?
Mark Jones
I feel like I'm still doing that.
Louise Cummins
Yeah, exactly. It's just one of those things. So how can we actually use it to unlock the power of good marketing? I'm excited about that. I think with great power comes great responsibility. I keep quoting Spider-Man, but that's the thing is I think that's all within us of actually how do we put up the right guard rails so this actually works for us in the future? So I am excited, but I think the chessboard's about to be thrown up in the air, and it's how we want to play it to put the pieces where we want to. Then I think adaptability is going to be more important than ever.
Mark Jones
Now, Michelle, you're obviously at the coalface or at the smiley face. Sorry, I just came up with that.
Louise Cummins
Have you heard that before?
Michelle Rowling
Yeah, a few times.
Louise Cummins
Oh, okay.
Michelle Rowling
Yep.
Mark Jones
We didn't even rehearse it.
Louise Cummins
It was pretty good.
Mark Jones
So you're in a position where you're doing sales and marketing, by the way. So all of the ticketing, you're responsible for the experiences, et cetera, et cetera. Can you firstly just tell us what's going on in the day-to-day, and then how are you thinking about this big AI question?
Michelle Rowling
I have a very broad team by demographic, by skill sets, and everyone is currently embracing AI in their own way, and that's great. And they're working within their own constraints and abilities and their own trust of AI, and I think that's actually something that I would want to call out, whether using it creatively or strategically, or hopefully a bit of both, I think as marketers we need to make sure we're treating AI in the same way that we would if we worked for a pharmaceutical company. That's why I'm impressed that you brought it up because it was a bit of a segue here.
If we're not using it responsibly and ethically, we have a risk that we could essentially be selling the wrong product to the wrong person in the wrong way or creating misconceived ideas about the potential of a product that we're trying to market, and that has dire consequences. So even though I'm selling tickets to roller coasters, I use AI in a way that I would if I was selling Panadol, and I think that's really, really crucial.
Mark Jones
So this is the B2B and B2C sort of merging story, right?
Michelle Rowling
Yeah. I can't sell the wrong product to the wrong person in the wrong way. It'll have a terrible event, it'll have a terrible consequence for that business that's holding their conference, but also have a terrible experience for a little kid's birthday party. You don't want to do that. If we look back at the way we used to market traditionally, it was honesty and integrity, and I don't think we should relax because AI is doing the work for us. We should still be bringing in that same ethos.
Louise Cummins
Can I just-
Mark Jones
Yeah, jump in.
Louise Cummins
Just one little thing is that for anybody that hasn't seen it, the latest guidelines from the Australian government has come out about AI, and it's not mandatory at the moment, it's going to come mandatory really quickly. So highly recommend anybody out there to actually go and download that because what you're saying, which I think is fantastic, and you're already starting to put those guardrails in, it's going to be mandatory soon anyway. So it's really good to actually set up AI the way that you want to continue because it needs to have that human oversight.
Mark Jones
Yeah. If there is a theme, and, Amy, I'd love to hear your perspective from Adobe's point of view, the concept of guidelines, and also, I've had many conversations with leaders about this, getting your data right, getting your strategy right. In other words, doing the basics still. There's an interesting tension because we've got to get the basics right at the same time that we've got this ludicrously fast speeding train, metaphorically speaking, of AI, seems to just get faster and faster. So there's a real interesting tension point there. What are your thoughts?
Amy James
Yeah. Look, working with multiple different customers in this area, I see customers at different stages of their journey. I see customers that are more risk-adverse and still planning and thinking about how we get involved. I've got other customers that have just opened up the doors to everyone internally and then suddenly gone, "Whoa, hang on, you're using all these external solutions that aren't locked down by the company. Let's pull it all back."
So I think when talking to customers, having those guardrails, but having that governance and that plan in place is incredibly important when thinking about AI. Because the opportunity is huge, but making sure that they are improved products internally that you're using, that you've all signed off on, that you've been educated and enabled on is a huge thing as well. Because it's great to have it, but if you don't know how to use it in the correct ways... So there's a couple of things to put in place that we see customers doing, but in terms of the opportunity, really taking away of those mundane tasks, et cetera.
But when talking to customers too, we hear that the way they're thinking about using AI or agents, the more involved kind of AI is considering on how do we work with our team and our agents is almost like another person within the team so that we've got that control and we've got that kind of foundation to actually execute and deliver the right things. So yeah, I would say governance and strategy are key there.
Louise Cummins
But if we're looking at this 10 year anniversary, have we... I feel like interchange AI for MarTech 10 years ago, right? Everybody was running after MarTech with no strategy, or we must embed $200,000 worth of CRM without the right information architecture and all the rest of it. I'm not really sure we've actually evolved.
Amy James
It’s just a new problem.
Mark Jones
Or at least we're slow learners. Well, why don't we talk about the future then, because it's a great segue into the concept of leadership. How do we not do the same thing again? But also, what's the role of the CMO and the leadership team to get a lot of this stuff right?
And this is actually a nice little dovetail back to not knowing anything in COVID times. I feel like we don't really know anything now either. I don't mean to be critical of CMOs, but where's it going? We don't really know. I mean, the leaders et al., the AI platforms will admit to you they don't really know how this is going to work out either, which is not very good. So how do we lead in that context? What are your thoughts? Louise?
Louise Cummins
There's a couple of things. Optus was fantastic. I'm not having a good. But I remember at Optus, years ago, we used to make these massive, fantastic... I think they were called BPRs. These big sort of one-year mission... Very thorough. I think fundamentally we're going to go back to almost quarterly plans because things are going to change a lot.
I'm with you. I see a lot of different clients across... And I'm seeing ones having Kodak moments, actually. I'm like, "I don't think you're going to be able to pivot in time." But pulling something that you've said, I was at Coles the other day and I was driving into the car park with the no ticket system and... I've got a new Coles where you actually can do all the... It's a normal checkout where you actually do it all yourself, not just the side ones. And I was reflecting, going, my grandma who had still horses when they were in Double Bay, I was going, "There's no way she could have predicted this."
So we seemed to be obsessed about trying to predict the future. And the only way we can predict the future is we do it as a construct of the past. And I'm not sure we need to kind of get ourselves so bogged down in terms of what's going to happen. Humans are an amazing, resilient species. I don't know if these beings are going to become... Humanoids are going to take over the world and it's going to be Terminator. I feel like that's the biggest piece for me is how do we actually evolve quickly in each quarter, put up the right guardrails, take a breath though, and work out what our strategy is?
I'm not 100% sure about the information architecture being perfect because I think you're going to end up people losing a whole big opportunity. I think they're going to have to expedite whatever that looks like quicker.
The other piece I would say is, going through with clients, I worry that some CMOs aren't getting a seat at the table around tech, mostly because they haven't leant into it. So there are CMOs out there that are very focused on a brand, which is great, but they haven't been as focused on data or their role in digital transformation. So I feel like it's up to marketers to actually go and say, "We want to have a seat at the table." Because AI seems to have been much more governed by the strategy ops people, and I feel like that's going to be a bit of a moment for us. If we want to keep our relevance, we have to step up into that conversation.
Mark Jones
That's a really great insight. I see you nodding a lot, Amy.
Amy James
I totally agree on that. I feel like this is such an opportunity for the marketing CMO, that area of the business, to really raise the profile to be like, "I understand the customer. Everything here that we're trying to deliver is a great experience for our customer to build that trust, to build that loyalty." We need to understand what those requirements are and how do we actually engage with them better and faster, and AI is just a tool to enable that. So whether different teams own different components, us, as marketers, we own that customer experience and we need to make sure that we're front and centre in those conversations on how AI is actually delivering that experience.
Mark Jones
Michelle, just before you make a comment, one of the things that strikes me about this quarterly idea is we used to have one-year strategic plan. It's like the mindset is like, "I'm going to have a strategic plan for this quarter." That's a really interesting way of thinking about leadership. Just off the back of that, the marketing and the tech coming together, do you agree that we've kind of seeded too much of the tech or maybe the governance to other people, other executives?
Michelle Rowling
Absolutely. I think in some circumstances we've seen brands that have, essentially, marketing's lost hold of the technology and it's become managed by the CEO or the CFO. And while everyone needs to have a seat at the table, I think it's about making sure that everyone can manage collaboratively and lead collaboratively through this way. And when I say collaboratively, I mean up, down, and sideways. If you don't have your team completely on board with every task that they're working on to understand the form that that has in the bigger picture, then it's not going to work. But even so, your equivalents on the leadership team need to understand exactly why we're going the direction that we are. And the consumer is absolutely the heart of it, therefore we need to own the story. We're reading the book, but everyone owns a page.
Louise Cummins
Ooh, I like that.
Mark Jones
I'm a big fan of any story metaphor. That's great. So we are nearly out of time. Unbelievably how fast these conversations go. But if we think about what's next and the advice that we might have for other marketing leaders and CMOs, one of the things I'm taking away from this myself is it's not about predicting the future, but how we're going to respond when we get there, or actually today because that's all we've got, but how we respond to these new changes. That's my take is how well can you adapt in the moment. But I'm keen to hear from each of you on the advice that you have for your peers.
Michelle Rowling
I think to be successful in marketing or to be successful in any area, to be honest, you have to know exactly what you want. So what do you want out of your career? What do you want for your livelihood, your family, and where do you want go and progress? And if you don't have a plan for yourself, it doesn't really feel fair that you're making a plan for a brand.
Mark Jones
Amazing. I love it.
Louise Cummins
I would say that the marketing principles that we did at university haven't changed. So I think there's layers of how we go about it, but actually, the core of our discipline is still the same regardless of 10 years, 20 years, 30 years.
Mark Jones
Sorry, but isn't that really comforting? Like something stayed the same.
Louise Cummins
The one thing that I would say is we've talked about adaptability. For anybody online, I do want to just reflect a moment where The CMO Show was one of my first opportunities to actually do a podcast or some sort of speaking event, and I remember getting the headphones on and the mic, and I took a photo for my mum, and I was very excited. And that was one of those moments where I pushed myself out of my comfort zone. And I would say that's the new era as well.
So one, anybody that actually has an opportunity to do something like The CMO Show or do some sort of speaking event, push yourself outside of your comfort zone. And that is then the philosophy, I would say, moving forward. We're going to have to keep pushing ourselves outside of our comfort zone, but we always know that that's where the beauty happens.
Mark Jones
Again, reassuring because if you're feeling uncomfortable, that's what we're all doing.
Louise Cummins
Yes.
Mark Jones
Okay.
Amy James
I love that. And maybe something to kind of build on that is through this rapid change, I feel like we're probably in the slowest time of change right now too. It's only going to continue to grow, I think, in speed. But as leaders and CMOs and leads within the business, I think it's our role to make sure that some people who are ready to kind of engage and bring AI into their workflows, there might be others on the other side of the camp that just aren't ready and don't want to or don't believe in it. So you need to bring both of those kind of sides of the camps along for the journey because it's great to have people that are ready to go, but it's great to get different opinions and see where things could be improved from the other side. So I think it's a big thing to make sure that everyone's coming along for the journey, and leading that as well.
Mark Jones
Would you please thank our panel? Again, another journey metaphor, a story metaphor, and a great way to wrap up some of these really big picture ideas.
A big thanks today again to Adobe for hosting us, and the whole team at ImpactInstitute for organising this event. If you would like to listen to more episodes of The CMO Show and catch up to Paula, who's listened to every single one of them, you can go to impactinstitute.com.au and of course get in touch with us about anything else that we can do to help you with your brand's storytelling.
That is it for today, for this episode. Once again, thank you to our panel for joining us. We'll see you next time.