BONDS on doing “Iconic Sh*t”
How do you market a brand that serves everyone, from newborn babies to centenarians, sells through supermarkets and department stores alike, and already has an average of 12 products in every Australian household?
In this episode of The CMO Show, we sit down with Kedda Ghazarian, Head of Marketing at BONDS, to explore the unique challenge of growing one of Australia's most iconic brands.
After spending more than a decade with the business, Kedda shares how BONDS continues to stay relevant across generations while maintaining the humour, accessibility and cultural connection that have made it a household name.
The conversation dives into the viral "Made for Down Under" campaign featuring Robert Irwin and how a simple Australian insight helped introduce BONDS to the US market. Kedda explains why taking the brand into a market where nobody knows you forced the team to strip away the complexity and focus on the few truths that make BONDS unmistakably Australian.
Along the way, she shares the lessons she's learned leading a brand that spans countless customer segments, product categories and retail channels, why her team lives by the mantra "Do iconic sh*t", and how marketers can balance creativity, commercial growth and cultural relevance in an increasingly fragmented landscape.
For marketers grappling with broad audiences, brand evolution and the challenge of standing out, this episode is a masterclass in brand building.
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This episode of The CMO Show was brought to you by host Mark Jones, producers Niall Hughes, Kirsten Bables, Syd Le, and audio engineer Ed Cheng. This is an edited excerpt of the podcast transcript.
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Mark Jones:
Marketers love iconic brands. They're everywhere, of course, but if you're not an iconic brand, what does it take to go to the next level? What does it take to have an ad that ends up on the news in a good way? What does it take to have a campaign that really takes off and becomes iconic? Wouldn't that be something?
Hello, and thanks for joining us on the CMO show. My name's Mark Jones. The CMO show is, of course, brought to you by ImpactInstitute in partnership with our friends at Adobe. Now, we are gonna talk about undies today. So be warned. Although it's not gonna be as bad as you think. Actually, it's gonna be a lot better. We're going to talk about how an iconic brand, Bonds, has understood its history, has been able to push into a new market in the US. And of course, what it was like to work with Robert Irwin. we've all seen the Bonds ad, and if you haven't, maybe press pause, go watch it, and then come back because it's really going to help. This is an incredible episode where we get to hear from Kedda Ghazarian. Now she is the head of marketing at Bonds and she's been with the company for a really long time. So she brings incredible knowledge to her story to this interview and she's able to give us a bit of an insight in what it takes to be iconic, but also some really important lessons in here for brands that are not yet iconic. What does it take? So let's dive into the episode.
Kedda, thank you so much for joining me. A wonderful opportunity to meet somebody who's working on an incredibly iconic brand. But yes, thank you. Great to have you.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Thanks for having me, Mark. I'm excited.
Mark Jones:
I wanted to, on behalf of everybody everywhere, just kick off by talking about Robert Irwin.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yes, I have I have received lots of thank you from Australians here and abroad in the last year.
Mark Jones:
I mean it's it's not it it right, it's and it's not just the women. It's the blokes are like well done mate, like nice work. Right? So if no
Kedda Ghazarian:
Absolutely. Yeah, of course. Not just women who can appreciate the specimen that is Robert Owen.
Mark Jones:
And of course his incredible undies, for the people who don't know what we're talking about. this is not the only reason I wanted to talk to you, I should add, but it's a great way to begin, right? and I think in terms of the Australian conversation, if you like, the Zeitgeist, the big moment you've had in a little in the recent past, that was a big deal. So to kind of kick things go you know, to kick things off with that in a bit of context, tell me about Bonds and why it's so important to Australians as a brand.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, I mean it's funny, right? Like coming into a brand as iconic as Bonds. I am just as much of a fangirl about the brand and it its kind of incredible legacy of great ads.
Mark Jones:
Hm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
as anyone. so it truly does feel like a gift to get to work on a on a brand like this. but in terms of the role it plays in Australia, I think, you know, I think we as a nation are just so proud of our exports. I think we're all re we're always really happy to rally around the things that feel like they really represent us and Bonds is
Mark Jones:
Hmm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
so innately cheeky and it doesn't take itself too seriously and we've you know always kind of had that in our in our DNA and that I think speaks to the Australian mindset and the way we all kind of approach life here. So yeah there's a pride that comes with that. the same pride we have in Tim Tams and Vegemite and all of those other kind of iconic Australian brands. So I think I think it ultimately comes down to humour with a brand like Bonds. I think that's why I love it so much. and you know, why have they chosen to kind of vote with their dollar for so many decades now? which has almost formed like another truth, right? Like people voted with their dollar to say we this this represents us, we think this brand is funny, we think they kind of speak the same way we speak, but now Bonds is also in every household. So now it's even more true that
Mark Jones:
Mm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
You know, it kind of is that common ground we all share, regardless of where you sit in society, regardless of your background or your size or your ethnicity, everyone kind of has Bonds in common, everyone has something Bonds in their wardrobe or their undie drawer, which is pretty special.
Mark Jones:
Now, unlike other heads of marketing and CMOs that tend to change their jobs every few years, you've had this role for twelve for twelve years, obviously starting out in in social media and growing in your role, so not the same role for that entire time, but as a way of understanding a little bit about you, what's been the appeal of a brand like this for that length of time? Like what is what has kept you interested in the same set of products and you know, as you as you've moved through those stages?
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, I mean I came I came from agency. So, when I joined the business twelve years ago, I was just so thrilled to work on one brand. after working on many at once. that felt like yeah, exactly, exactly. So it felt like a huge win.
Mark Jones:
Ha ha ha. Yeah. No time sheets. Hooray.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, I have had a really unique kind of opportunity in my role to hold many different roles within the marketing team. like you said, I've been the social media manager for Bonds. it was a very different time in social media when I managed those accounts, thank goodness. Because TikTok is a is a whole another world. but yeah, I've been in brand manager roles, marketing manager roles and then in the last couple of years stepped into the head of marketing role.
Mark Jones:
Yes.
Kedda Ghazarian:
And I'm so glad that that's the journey that I've had. It's meant that I have a really deep knowledge of the brand, which is, you know, fabulous. But it also means I have a huge respect for all of the work that has to happen at every level of the team. I understand a lot of the roles that my team do and the things that keep them up at night or keep them busy.
Mark Jones:
Hm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, I mean, why is why have I stayed this long? Great question. it's actually a little bit of a commonality in this business. There's a lot of really long tenures here. people who've been with the business for twenty, thirty years. We actually celebrated a fifty year anniversary, work anniversary for someone this year. So I'm in good company in that sense. But I think that I think the thing that keeps people here and the thing that certainly has kept me here is the variety. Like Bonds is for everyone. We have products for everyone, every age, every stage. So there's no day is the same necessarily. There's a lot of variety and in fashion in particular.
Mark Jones:
Right.
Kedda Ghazarian:
There are not a lot of brands that can say that. You know, you can really start to feel like you're on a hamster wheel a little bit working on the same customer segment, the same product mix season after season. But in this business, you know, one day I'm working on baby comms and talking to new parents, and the next day we've, you know, got men in their underwear, and it's a completely different audience, a completely different way of talking to our customer. So it's nice, it's great to have the variety and yeah, I feel very, very blessed to still get to make ads as well. You know, that's the difference between Bonds and a lot of other fashion brands right now is like we still invest in brand marketing.
Mark Jones:
Absolutely. And before we get to the products and a bit of the brand marketing, just another quick thing, in terms of your career, how have you continued to stay connected to the trends, to marketing insights and to grow? I think I'm particularly impressed that people who can go from technical roles into a management role and then a leadership role where it's a very different mindset shift and you know, we don't talk about it a lot in in in marketing circles, but certainly in the team that you're in, I imagine that would have been a, you know, a big mindset shift and a skill development opportunity. So how have how have you done that?
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, I've learnt a lot in this business, particularly about leadership and managing, you know, when I was in those social roles, you're given a lot of responsibility and a lot of trust. Like you're on the front line, right? Of the of the brand a lot of the times. And you're also sometimes, you know, a junior burger in your early 20s navigating that. So yeah, it's a different kind of trust now, to kind of lead teams and lead strategy. But I would say I'm a really curious person. I really, really love the kind of...I guess of marketing. Like marketing is an ever-changing space. I think anyone who comes into an industry like this and expects everything to stand still and stay the same is probably in the wrong job. So being open to change, being open to kind of trying new things and having fun with it is what gets me out of bed in the morning every day, anyway. So I think that's like part of why I truly love my job.
Mark Jones:
Yes.
Kedda Ghazarian:
And why I've been able to stay in this business for so long and hold different roles as well. But yeah, it is, I still actually am probably, you know, I've I lean toward the creative maybe more than I should some days, but that's the stuff that I just love. It's, you know, why I wanted to be a marketer and why I wanted to work in fashion. When we begin with so you know I find it was really hard to not kind of dig into the aesthetics of it sometimes but yeah. we've got a team of 30 people split across Australia and Bangkok.
Mark Jones:
Absolutely. And how big how big is the marketing team?
Kedda Ghazarian:
But yeah, it's really quite wide reaching. So marketing in in my world looks like obviously core brand marketing and social media and content, but also visual merchandising, graphic design. We have an in-house studio as well. So quite mixed expertise across the team, which has also been great because it's meant, you know, there's a lot of variety in terms of how we can bring the brand to life and all the touch points that we get to kind of manoeuvre between. I'd like to learn a bit about, you know, if you think about the different categories that you're playing across and then all the SKUs within that and how you're dealing with, you know, seasonality and cultures.
Mark Jones:
Maybe across Asia Pacific that you alluded to, suddenly it starts to, you know, sound a little bit more complicated.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, it's really, really complicated actually. I mean, I think that's like part of part of it is I've been here for so long. I'm probably a bit immune to that. But whenever we have anyone come in with fresh eyes, it is so much to get your head around. Yeah. We are we are one of the most complex businesses and quite rare as well in how accessible we are, you know, we are in every retailer in Australia, basically. There's not many brands that you can find in a supermarket and in David Jones. That's you know quite rare. Yeah, right. And then we basically have a product for everyone. We are not you know we-
Mark Jones:
Yeah, wow. Hadn't thought about that, you're right.
Kedda Ghazarian:
We make things for babies, but we also make things for people who, you know, might be celebrating their hundredth birthday. So there is there is truly a complexity to our product assortment, to our retailer distribution, to yeah, to the team and the many touch points that we have to deliver on and now, you know, the markets that we're in as well. So yeah, it is
Mark Jones:
Mm. Yeah, yeah.
Kedda Ghazarian:
It is highly complex, but in a way that's really fun. Like I I you know, it is tricky, but it is it's also part of Bonds's secret source, I think. Like what makes it so unique to work on as a brand.
Mark Jones:
Yeah, yeah.
Mark Jones:
Yes. I think there's something interesting here which is that from my perspective, if you like, looking out from the inside from the looking from the outside in, we see a very strong clear brand, right? It's very, very bold, very iconic, it's simple from an external brand story perspective.
How do you maintain that but also the fun? Because my experience has been that when you see teams get bigger, organizations get bigger, you know, all the sort of bureaucracy and i you know, everything creeps in and it and it kind of grinds down a little, you know? And so, you know, do you find yourself balancing the fun with having to be like the strict brand police, you know, from time to time and yeah, there's a tension there, right?
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, there is. I thankfully don't need to be the brand police too often, which is which is great. I think for me what sits at the heart of it is, you know, we're we are an iconic brand. And again, not many not many people can say that, not many brands can say that. So, with that comes a like an amazing gift. But I think what has been so fundamental to the consistency and to the way in which we show up, is a bit of like an internal mantra that we have in the team, which is and sorry if this creates a language warning on this podcast, I don't know but is to do iconic shit. And that's the mantra that all of my team live by.
Mark Jones:
Mm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
It's the question that we ask of the creative, it's the question that we ask of our agencies, it's the way that we induct and train our teams and our and our staff on how we want to bring the brand to life. Like, is it iconic? Are we doing iconic shit? Is that does that feel like something Bonds could do, or could it be anyone?
Mark Jones:
Mm-hmm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
And you know, I think that challenge is ever present in the way that we approach our marketing. And sometimes it means you fail. You know, sometimes doing iconic shit doesn't always stick. but it certainly pushes us, I think, to think about how we build on the legacy that is Bonds rather than just kind of keep it you know, keep the wheels turning, or the lights on. everyone does really want to put their stamp on the brand and that's kind of a fun, a fun challenge, I think, to what is a lot of young people in my team who have opinions about Bonds and where that should go. And I was that twelve years ago, you know, I wanted to see more representation, more diverse bodies things that, you know, while they feel almost innate to the brand now wasn't actually always the case. and so, you know, I have to also be open to that within my team. What do they want to see for the next generation of this brand? but yeah, I love that mantra. I say it way too much, but I think it's also a really good provocation to the work. yeah.
Mark Jones:
Well, it's simple and strong, right? And it it's not a hard idea and that helps you scale the idea across the team. It's a very strong narrative, it's an easy, compelling one. And I think if we can quickly circle back to Robert Irwin, he obviously iconic, right? but I think even more so now, potentially in America anyway. how did that come about? What was the quick backstory on that campaign?
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, I like the best thing about that campaign, which this is such a marketing person answer, is how quickly it came together. in in the sense that every single choice, decision, step of the process just felt so right. and I think we when your gut kind of clicks in and goes, Yep, this is the only way forward. This is of course the right talent, the right setting, the right narrative.
Always, I think, a testament, like I said, to great strategy because there was a lot of good strategy behind it, but also the benefit I think, or the thing that I've learned in going into a new market globally, is it really gives you a fresh perspective on the brand. Like you can't trick it up. You know, here in in Australia, Bonds stands for many things. We've had so much time in this market, so many ways of people engaging with the brand. It is just naturally more complex. But when you take that to a brand new audience that have never heard of Bonds before, you have to kind of boil it down to just a few kind of ingredients. And that was such a gift. It was a gift to the creative because it could be just innately simple and, you know...have like it was so unapologetically Aussie, but it was also, you know, a one take, one shot ad. Like the beauty of that, the simplicity of the craft even is like just a miracle.
Mark Jones:
Never happens. Never happens. Yeah. Right.
Kedda Ghazarian:
But then also the way that that has been a gift to me in retrofitting that back into this market. Like what are the lessons that we could learn from when we take the brand down to its core? what does that look like? And are we maybe making things too complicated here in some channels and in some instances? And you know, even seeing the way that that that campaign was received here in Australia, which wasn't its target audience.
Mark Jones
Yeah. Yeah.
Kedda Ghazarian:
It is really special. Like people were proud of it. They were proud of seeing Bonds as this kind of global export, but they also engage with the ad as well as consumers. And even though it was kind of showing this hyper-real version of Australia, I mean, we all know that we don't sit in our backyard with crocodiles and spiders on our knees, drinking, casually drinking a glass of water.
Mark Jones:
Yeah. Ha ha ha
Kedda Ghazarian:
We still could laugh at that too, and that's really unique, I think, of our people and our country is that we love to laugh at ourselves and we can be in on the joke. And you know, that that's taught me a lot about how we can make our marketing stronger here, not just in other markets across the world.
Mark Jones:
Mm.
Mark Jones:
Now for the benefit of of the listener, the viewer who might have been under a rock and didn't see the campaign, didn't see the ad, can you briefly just describe it? This was the Made for Down Under, wasn't it?
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yes, made for Down Under. it was really to celebrate our launch into the US market last year, it features Robert Irwin in his underwear and it's really just taking this really simple, incredible idea, which is why are Australians so laid back? That's what everyone knows us for. They know us for dangerous animals and they know that we're cool cucumbers. And it took both of those elements and said, well, why?
Mark Jones:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Why are we so laid back in the face of all of that danger? it's because we're all wearing comfy undies and Robert Irwin kind of delivered that beautifully. Yeah. Well, and of course he is. Because he actually does spend his days with spiders and snakes and crocodiles. Yeah, he literally was laid back, wasn't he? Yeah.
Mark Jones:
Yeah. Yeah.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, it's kind of a play on that but also a way of really communicating this truth that we do all wear Bonds. I mean, we are we have twelve items in every in every household on average. So you know, even that was our US kind of proposition, that was our platform to l launch into that market, but even here our campaign is all based around this idea of Bonds.
Mark Jones:
Mm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Being kind of ubiquitous. And so they're very similar in that sense, just executed slightly differently.
Mark Jones:
Now I've got a feeling there's not twelve pairs of Bonds in every household in America just yet. But I'd love to know how's it going? Yeah.
Kedda Ghazarian:
No. We're working on it. Yeah, look, I mean it's a really complex market to crack and we knew that going in and we know that now still. It's the hugely exciting market, hugely competitive market but you know, the population size alone, the actual scale of the geography alone is complex.
Mark Jones:
Right, right.
Kedda Ghazarian:
So yeah, we're learning as we go, we're optimizing as we go, you know, all of those marketing buzzwords. Yeah, of course.
Mark Jones:
Sounds like correct, correct. Personalizing too, I hope. I can imagine how it sounds, you know, it sounds to me like you've got a little way to go. but what have you learned as a marketer through that experience? And I sort of staying on this topic a little bit because it to me seemed a moment where you brought together all of your experience, all of your experience in Australia, but then pushing into another market, you've talked about simplifying it.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah.
Mark Jones:
And obviously out of your comfort zone to some extent, right? You haven't been to America before in a marketing sense, so what were your big takeaways?
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. God, where to begin? I feel like it was truly a baptism by fire in the in the best way possible. you know, I took on this project basically the day after I was appointed head of marketing. So, from the very first moment of sitting in that kind of leadership seat, I began the journey of that global expansion for the brand. It taught me a few things. The first is to trust my gut. I know the brand well enough to know the best way to translate it. It taught me a lesson in simplicity.
Mark Jones:
Mm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
You know, pulling things back to the DNA of the brand and not tricking it up too much. That being said, I mean the ad has so many Easter eggs, like and that's part of the fun of it, right? For particularly all the Aussies are watching it. But you know, the simplicity is something I think we often forget as marketers and that that has been a real a real gift and a real lesson. And, you know, I think in moments like this when you get that lightning in a bottle of a campaign that cuts through and, you know, truly goes viral overnight. and you have people recreating it and commenting on it and engaging with it in ways that just have never been seen in our brand before, it does really just remind you that brand marketing has value and it's really tricky to do that too.
You know, I'm not I got lucky and I will be the first to say that and I've been the first to say in the business that I may never get that lucky again either. I'd love to. But it is a rare occurrence but I do think that it has helped in this business to really support that case for brand marketing and Bonds has a really proud history of doing great brand. But you know there's always the risk that could be eroded. There's always the risk that we kind of take it down to the immediate kind of dopamine of some of the advertising formulas that are out there.
Mark Jones:
Yes.
Kedda Ghazarian:
But I think this really helped to just cement that like, no, actually when we do invest, when we do this right, we have the power to kind of really cement the brand in ways that that none of those other mediums or channels can ever do.
Mark Jones:
Well you've got the rest of the Yeah. Well you've got the rest of the world to launch too, so you know, I'm sure you can do something. The other aspect of course from a leadership point of view would be working with the broader team at Bonds and you know, you're part of a larger organisation as well of course. So there would have been some interesting aspects to that that would have pushed you.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, we worked really closely with our kind of Haynes family in the US and built a lot of great relationships and relationships over there with the with those team members who kind of helped us, particularly with the Amazon side of the business, the TikTok shop side of the business, like things that just are inherently so different between our two markets, or don't even exist here yet in the case of TikTok shop but look the Irony is like, you know, for such a big undertaking, it was a really small team actually.
And a lot of the team were based out of Australia, here on the ground, kind of working it out as we go. And that was part of the most special piece for me, is like when I was in New York when we launched the campaign, without the rest of my team.
And you know, I got to kind of experience the adrenaline rush of that day playing out as it did and everyone talking about it on the news in America and it kind of being everywhere and then most of the people around me went to sleep and my team woke up and they woke up to all of that. And it was really, really special.
I didn't sleep for 24 hours because I couldn't. Because I was so I was so excited by how much the pride that they had for the campaign. their joy was just infectious. It was really special to see it happen, play out in real time in America, but it was extra special to see the team celebrate here and to come back and celebrate with them as a leader. Like that that was really the the biggest gift of them all.
Mark Jones:
Absolutely. Now I am also interested in the idea of creativity. You touched on that earlier, but being bold and you know, pushing into new opportunities. It sounds to me like culturally within the organization it wasn't that much of a stretch 'cause you've already had this iconic idea and you already had the playfulness. So those sorts of ideas tend to not be common everywhere. If you're a marketer who wants to lean into a bit more of that, what would your advice be?
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, look I I'm very lucky to work on a on a category that is inherently unserious. Like underwear is you know, we all need undies, we need them to do the job that they're designed to do. but it's not it's not you know, the most serious thing in the world, thank goodness for that. And so with that comes a lot of perm permission to kind of have fun with it, not every brand has that luxury, not every marketer can do that but yeah I do think the biggest thing that has been fundamental in us being able to be brave and be bold in our advertising and in our in our marketing, has been really true like alignment internally on where we want to take the brand, what our vision for the brand is, what our purpose for the brand is the impact we want to have in this market and beyond. And building a really clear brand positioning kind of framework which is as worn by us and that's kind of our Australian comms platform.
And I think that just grounded everything. So like that trust was there and now we're able to kind of riff on it in different ways. so, I do think like really investing in strategy, really understanding what you wanted what your vision is for the brand long term helps with that, like helps get things across the line. yeah. Yeah.
Mark Jones:
Yes. Yeah, so when you've got that alignment through the whole organization as to what you're doing and why then maybe the conversations are a bit easier. That that makes a lot of sense. Well.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah. And that took a long time because we're a really seasonal product range. You know, like everything changes season to season. There's a lot of new innovation that comes into our categories and so we also had to get off that drug of chopping and changing our marketing. Like there were a lot of years where we were doing lots of different campaigns for lots of different things and we've kind of streamlined that a lot more to talk at a brand level rather than an individual product level every single time, which was which was difficult for people to get their heads around at first but has been a blessing ultimately.
Mark Jones:
Now, when you think about the sort of the year and you know, I'm gonna say one to two years ahead, are you gonna keep doing these sort of big campaigns as the as the sort of the halo kind of approach? What are you gonna do in the context of AI and the very serious reason of course is around the way LLMs are reshaping e commerce and retail and that whole change to the funnel if that's an idea that you believe in. I'm interested in your thinking as to what you think's gonna continue to move the needle for the brand.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah, big question. I put simply, first of all, like yes, we will continue to invest in in brand and brand marketing and our brand platform. you know, I think all of the data tells us that that is the right kind of strategy for longevity and for brand growth. and all the things we've done over the last few years kind of prove that out too.
Mark Jones:
Mm.
Kedda Ghazarian:
That doesn't mean ignoring all of these other new factors, like GEO, like AI. You know, we are always focused as a brand on remaining relevant, and that's been why Bonds has stood the test of time. It is stayed up with the time. So, you know, for me the focus at the moment around AI is about.
Mark Jones (34:12.187)
Yes.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Well, it's about it's about building the skill set in my team. you know, the next generation of marketers, I'm sure, will be just native, AI natives. but you know, part of the many lessons I've learned in my time here and in my time previously in in digital and social is that the that you do need to take time to actually fully understanding your role within a within a space and I think there's a lot of people jumping on the immediacy of AI, which is really fun.
But for a brand as big as ours with a legacy like ours, I want to make sure that if we do anything in that space we've really thought about it, and thought about what that would mean to the people that buy our brand every day.
When we launched the UnGENderwear project, which was all about LGBTQA plus inclusion, we spent years working on that project before we ever brought it to market. years embedding that in our internal business, in our internal teams before it was ever external.
you've got to spend the time kind of practicing what you preach and really embedding things before you you take them external. But if you do all of that then it becomes so much easier down the track as well.
Mark Jones:
Yeah, it's really wise advice and I gotta say too, it sounds like you're also applying the iconic test, right? This iconic shit that we're gonna put out, right? And so you can't you can't be iconic if you don't actually understand it, at a very fundamental level. And so yeah.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah. And there will be really iconic ways to use AI and there's already loads of great global Khan winning examples of that.
Mark Jones:
Well, Ketter, it's been an absolute pleasure to hear your story. Thank you for being so open about the whole journey that you've been on personally, professionally, I should say, and you know, through the whole brand and the and the experience. I've learnt a lot and really enjoyed hearing your story. So thank you once again for being our guests and look forward to seeing you again soon.
Kedda Ghazarian:
Thanks, Mark. Appreciate it.
Have to get you some undies. Yeah, of course. I know far too much about everyone in this business and what underwear they wear and what size they are and all of those things. You'd hate to think just how much people will tell you the minute you say you work for an underwear brand, it's quite shocking. okay, perfect.
Mark Jones:
Right. Well my birthday's rolling around this month and so, you know, I'd imagine for your colleagues just like what should we get that person? You know. But I know, I know. Well actually so I've got you know, Father's Day rolling around this Sunday, so that's another big one for you guys, right?
Kedda Ghazarian:
Yeah. you can't get underwear, that's a cop out. We already work here.
Yeah. This is a huge time for us. Well we as men famously don't buy their own underwear. not to not to shame you, put you on the spot. But yeah, this is one of the peak men's underwear shopping periods for that very reason. Yep, genuinely.
Mark Jones:
No. It really is. It's the it's the Black Friday of Undies. Wow. Well that's awesome. Well
Kedda Ghazarian:
Well thanks so much.
Mark Jones:
My parting thought from this episode is of course the good old idea of a North Star. She spoke a lot about how it's really important to get simplicity in your brand and we hear a lot about that in marketing. But the idea of a North Star she didn't use that term but being iconic and what does it take to keep doing iconic shit? What does it take to keep your interest in being creative and bold and experimenting, but also running it through that filter. And importantly, that was a filter that is inside the organization. What does it take to do that as a whole team to sort of keep their eye on being iconic? And then using that as a filter when you start to push out. So it's a really great insight that you can apply in your own culture, of course, which you may not use the iconic word, you might use something else. so it's a really great reminder that if that's a really important thing for you, then keep doing it 'cause it's gonna pay off.
So that's it for this episode of the CMO show. Thank you so much for joining us. The CMO show is brought to you by ImpactInstitute in partnership with Adobe. We'll see you next time.